#1: Keeping a 60s Fast Food Icon Alive: The Story Behind Ben Frank's

Daniel Tsentsiper (00:00.812) Hey everyone, welcome. Today we are joined with Arvin Jang. Arvin is the owner of an iconic drive-thru that's been serving Redwood City for over 40 years. Ben Franks. I'd love to talk a little bit about your story, Arvin, here today and also talk about Ben Franks because it has such an amazing history and also is an icon of the typical old-fashioned hot dog. And you've kind of taken those elements of the classic American hot dog and elevated to a whole new level. So Arvin, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Arvin, let's I want to give you the stage here. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and, maybe talk about what was the journey like before you became the owner of Ben Frank's? OK, yeah, I. I was not always in the restaurant business. Actually, I'm a software engineer by profession. I graduated with a master's in computer science from Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago in 1988 and immediately started working for Accenture as a software consultant in Chicago. And the job involved, extreme amount of travel because we supported all our offices worldwide. So I was basically gone five days a week, came home only for weekends, sometimes not even. So did it for five years, got a tremendous amount of experience and a good amount of travel lifetime goal member on American Airlines. But it kind of, after I had children and stuff, it got a little tougher. travel that much. So I was thinking of a change. in about 1993 or 92, I resigned that job and accepted a position as a consultant with Sprint Communications. And at that same time, we moved to California. So Sprint had an advanced technology lab in Burlingame. Daniel Tsentsiper (02:22.83) So that's where I worked and we were living in San Mateo that time. And so that's how I got started in this area. And after a couple of years, I gave up my personal consulting position at Sprint, opened a startup in Burlingame itself, hired some engineers. Sprint was our first major client, but then we got other clients and we started making some small software products, et cetera. And so it was not an easy road, know, came and went and engineers came and went and, know, keeping a good supply of both was not easy. So in year 2000, the whole dot com business died crashing and we could see sort of the writing on the wall for us also. Some of our very big clients shut their doors. So we were worrying about ourselves and then one of our clients offered to buy us out. And although we would have preferred to continue, we didn't want to take a chance. So we accepted their offer. It was a pretty handsome offer. I made some money and senior engineers did as well. And so all the engineers went to work for the new company, Keen.com. And I also worked for them for a year. as per the contract and then I went my own way and this is year 2000. And so then I did another startup this time in India. It was not that successful. We lost a lot of money on that and I came back to the US. Thought of getting a job. The job market was terrible at that time. There were especially no jobs for ex-CEO of small software companies. So I realized that I had to do something new. And at that time, I've teamed up with my neighbor's son who were good friends of ours also, and Nick and I, he had an idea that he wanted to open a chain of healthy fast food restaurants. So we explored the whole idea. We met some senior. Daniel Tsentsiper (04:47.854) experienced people. They all seem to advise us the same thing that we should look at what In-N-Out Burger was doing. because that was the big story at that time and big success, et cetera. So, but the long and short of it was that we needed to, if the idea was good, we needed to have our first property, first restaurant, and the proof of concept and take it forward. So Nick identified the Ben Franks in Redwood City as a possible location. And he found out that the owner was gentleman called Steve Hiller. Steve Hiller is the son of the famous Stanley Hiller, the Hiller aviation family. You may have seen the aviation museum at the San Carlos airport when you drive on 101. And that is the same family. So Steve as a young man started this chain and he envisioned, I suppose, hundreds of restaurants and franchises. Steve's a billionaire. He's not going to be happy with one Z's and two Z's. So he wanted a very big operation. So we approached Steve Hiller and basically Ben Franks was not even up for sale or anything. We just met him for advice and he is a very, very nice gentleman. He gave us his time and advised us on what we should do. He even thought our idea was good. And by our second meeting, we basically asked him if he'd sell us Ben Franks. And to our surprise, he agreed to that very shortly at pretty good terms. So that was good. But at that time, Nick, my partner dropped out. He had some other business interests as well. So I was left alone. And so I still pursued the whole thing and acquired Ben Franks by myself. so I asked Steve Hiller what he thought if I had changed the menu. So he said, it's your restaurant. You can do what you want with it. But I can tell you that Daniel Tsentsiper (07:06.388) if you stop the hot dogs, I'll get a lot of phone calls with complaints. So that was my first experience of how popular and cult-like the following of this place is. so, and then I took over the business and I saw how people loved the food and... Incidentally, in my college, I had always worked in restaurants. I was familiar with the food business, but I had never seen, experienced a restaurant where people, people can tell I'm the owner when I'm working there and it seek you out and it seek me out and tell me how good the food was. I hear people like, please don't ever shut this place down and stuff like that. So, okay. You know, I'd go to the bank and you want Ben Frank's? my God. I love that place. So slowly I dawned on me how, popular this place was. So the first thing I decided was I am not going to take away this menu at all. I mean, it is so very popular. would be not the right thing to do. So at the same time, I wanted to continue with the healthy food concept and there's nothing wrong with hot dogs the way they are made. especially our hot dog, but there are other options as well. So what I have done is that anything new I added, I tried to make it organic and that we have added vegetarian and chicken products as well. So that was the start of my involvement with the Ben Frank's restaurant and the chain, although nowadays only one restaurant left. I'm glad you didn't take away the hot dogs because yeah, the Louisiana is my favorite and I also tried the chicken wings. So you've sort of like evolved the menu over time and I find that to be like, think what stands Ben Frank's apart. So that's awesome. Thanks for giving us a bit of your history, a bit of Ben Frank's history, but I'm very curious. I remember we spoke a few times and you mentioned that Ben Frank's has a very, very deep Daniel Tsentsiper (09:25.024) history within Hollywood and the Bay Area. Can you share a little bit a little bit more about the history of Ben Frank's with us? Okay, let's talk about the Hollywood location. mean, the iconic one. Talk about history. It blows everything else away. But I must admit to you, we can't take all the credit for it, basically. The Hollywood Ben Franks was even founded before this Ben Franks was. And although our Ben Franks is a little play on Benjamin Franklin's name, the Hollywood Ben Franks was originally started by a gentleman called Ben Franks. So I think Mr. Hiller acquired it in order to strengthen his trademark on the Ben Franks name. Because that other Ben Franks was a cafeteria diner kind of place. But we did end up owning it. So we are by default now the custodians of its history and everything, including this. A lot of film studios want to use old memorabilia from Ben Franks in movie sets and all. they take our permission for that. so what I know is from published materials for this place. And I hear stories from people here and there. But it is incredible what that place was. It was on Sunset Boulevard, smack in the middle of the music district. And Daniel don't seem that old to me, but if you were old enough and you had lived through the 60s and 70s music scene, you'd get goose flash from hearing the name that used to hang at Ben Frank's. know, they have made Frank Zappa, Jim Morrison of the Doors, Bob Dylan, Buffalo Springfield. Neil Young was one of the members of that band and he's one of my favorite singers. Daniel Tsentsiper (11:35.756) Buffalo Springfield was formed literally in the parking lot of Ben Franks. And Frank Zappa wrote a song with Ben Franks in it. That's pretty cool. Let me see if I... The words go, maybe if I pass my driving test, I could get a gig driving that bus that picks the freaks up in front of Ben Franks. I guess, freaks, means hippies. hippies, yeah. The hippies prefer to be called freaks. That was a more acceptable word. But it actually has Ben Franks in the line in the song. So we are associated with that Ben Franks. And I don't know how long Steve ran it actively and how much they... tried to combine the menus, et cetera. But apparently it was closed in 1996 as Ben Frank's and they were allowed to continue as Mel Steiner, which sounds like another TV show name, it? Mel Steiner. But the whole thing was that he got a trademark on the Ben Frank's name. So that was the relationship with that one. I get... Just a couple of years ago, I had to give another permission for another movie called Less Than Zero. I don't know if it ever got made, but yeah, it was an iconic place of Los Angeles, Hollywood area. That's amazing. Arvin, do you have maybe a favorite story or a historical moment that's tied to Ben Frank's, whether it's at your restaurant or with the brand as a whole? Could you share us a little bit about some of the best moments that you remember of Ben Frank's? Daniel Tsentsiper (13:38.03) I mean, Ben Franks literally has, it's like, it's been present in this location. This is the last man standing type of location. It's been there for all these years and it has literally shaped the culture of the local area. I hear stories. Like I said, if I go to the bank, I hear stories. Everybody, moment they find out I own Ben Franks, I hear stories. I met this older gentleman the other day. said, yeah, when we were young, we used to go sell all beer, all beverage bottles and cans at the recycling center. And with the money, we'd go and eat hot dogs at Ben Frank's. You know, those kinds of stories I hear. one funny one was, when somebody walked up, this was like in the beginning when I had just bought the place and I wasn't too. earlier with lots of the history. I think they said, they must have said that is this the place that's owned by Keena Turner? So I didn't, I'm not a big, you know, Keena Turner is very old player and I didn't know he was a 49er. So I didn't even know who Keena Turner was. So I thought he said Tina Turner, the singer, Tina and Ike Turner. So I thought that was such a ridiculous concept that how could Tina Turner own Ben Franks. mean, obviously you're in the wrong place. That you know, this is not owned by Tina Turner. So, so a few days later, I happened to talk to Steve Hiller. so I said, funny thing happened. Somebody came up and asked me if this was owned by Tina Turner. He said, no, they must have meant they must have said Tina Turner. And that's when I found out that Tina Turner, the 49er was one of the franchises, early franchises of Ben Frank's in the city. that's amazing. Wow. Well, Arvind, yeah, the restaurant industry is is also one of the it has some of its amazing qualities to it, right? You have the historical significance of Ben Frank's and all the cult, well, you said cult like following that you've acquired over the years. But I'm sure coming from Daniel Tsentsiper (15:59.168) software as an entrepreneur and coming into one of the toughest industries, which is the restaurant industry. I'm sure it didn't come with, it came with its fair share of challenges, I assume. I guess in your last almost 20 years owning Ben Franks, what were some of those challenges that you faced and how did you overcome them? Yeah, challenges are continuous. First of all, when I bought the place, it was Steve Hiller himself admitted that he had not even been managing his business. He ran on autopilot for many years. So very outdated technology. mean, they had a cash register, which was like those key type of things. And they didn't accept credit cards. you believe it? Only cash only. So first step was to update all those technologies. You got a new POS system. and started taking credit cards, et cetera. mean, credit card, adding credit card obviously was a great addition to business right away. Yeah. And I saw it grow. I mean, it was like 10 % credit card, 90 % cash and the mix slowly kept changing. And now we're looking at like 60, 70 % credit card and the rest cash. So that was a big portion of business. They were missing by not offering credit cards. There are many points of failure in, I bet you it's the case with all restaurants. This is the first one I've owned. There many points of failure and things keep failing. For example, we don't have gas laid out at this place. So all the appliances are electric. so they have a lot of electronics control, the thermostat, and they keep breaking down in the extreme heat. And I'm told gas appliances don't break down, but We have no choice. And when they break down, it's a very big situation. have to come in and repair them. costs as much as repairing them as buying a new appliance, literally. So those are the challenges on a daily basis that one has had to deal with. The refrigeration was like, it was custom built like cabinets in the wall. Daniel Tsentsiper (18:23.896) pipes running in the, and there were this old compressor chugging along outside and it used to break down almost once a week. So, so finally ripped it all out, got modern refrigeration system in there. So it was a lot of work and it still needs a lot of work in my mind, but you know, funds are needed to do all that. So we are doing it slowly. The other big challenge that That was the biggest challenge was the COVID epidemic. And that was also the time that I realized what a tremendous amount of customer base this place had and people who love this place. I think within a few days of the epidemic, the whole lockdown, everything had crashed. And this reporter came, this gentleman came from SF gate. And he interviewed me and on 1st of April, he wrote this article on SFGate about Ben Franks and how they haven't been able to pay their rent and they're suffering financially, et cetera. But on the whole, a nice positive article. But you will not believe on that day what happened to us. We were mobbed. People came from every direction. people came from Sacramento to support us. They didn't want to see us shut down. And the most touching was this young man. He bought some hot dogs for $30 or so. And then he tells me, you sell me $20 worth of food? So I kind of looked at him, at least like, what kind of... So he said, well, he said, my boss, gave me 50 bucks and he told me, said, go spend this in Ben Franks. mean, I mean, this is, this is the, by evening we ran out of everything. Bread, buns, everything was gone. I'm sure you couldn't have predicted that. But that, that was so touching to see how people love this place. That was, that was how I found out how much this place loved. But of course, we were set up. Daniel Tsentsiper (20:46.53) for COVID in a way with our drive through 80%, 90 % drive through business because immediately the government sent people, they helped us with our rent and people got those debit cards to spend money and stuff. And so we were then really, we did pretty well in the next few months and could hardly keep up with the business sometimes. So that was good. the support of the... customers was just, just tremendous. was very nice. It was beautiful. How has the restaurant industry changed over the past two decades since you've been the owner of Ben Frank's? Well, whatever I find out, mean, you see something from the ground level, but you you read in the press and one keeps thinking maybe the fast food wave might be over eventually, you know, fast food gets a lot of bad press, but unhealthiness, etc. But I think fast food is the almost the backbone of the country for people's daily food needs. It's true. I think most of the people can't even boil an egg anymore. People cannot cook. And this is the kind of society we have now. It's like, it's all specialization. Hey, I'm a web developer. I'm a coder. Why the hell should I have to cook? know, can do a dash food. So people depend on restaurants and their neighborhood for food. And fast food is very much part of it. What I am seeing is that my family type of operation in fast food have a challenge to compete with the in and out burgers and the chick filets of the world. Daniel Tsentsiper (22:49.454) I mean, they literally suck away all the business. I remember when the Chick-fil-A in Redwood City opened near us, I had not even realized there was one opening. And one day it was like zero business at lunchtime. And I what happened today? Was there an atomic strike somewhere? What happened? Has everybody just disappeared? Then I found out that there was this Chick-fil-A that had opened their doors. So it took a few days for our business to even come back. So, I mean, there are times when I see our restaurant basically doesn't have that much business, but Chick-fil-A and in and out are packed. So it's hard to compete for family businesses. So, I mean, we are so well received and then you find it kind of... hard to compete with these big chains. I can't imagine the lesser known fast food, how they must compete. And maybe that's why we don't see too many of them. It's very hard to compete with these big chains. So I guess that is one of the changes I would say that now you're not only just competing the McDonald's, now there are many, many. chains that have come up successful one and maybe even McDonald's is finding it hard perhaps to compete within and out or something. So that is a major change in the industry. But eating out every time, know, prices go up and all like prices went up a lot recently. Absolutely. And I waited till almost just last month to raise my prices. I just didn't think I could sustain such high prices. There was no choice because all the costs have gone up so much, rents have gone up. So we did raise up prices. But everybody said there were articles in newspapers that fast food businesses are going to suffer. People are going to start eating more at home. So maybe people did for a few days and then people came back. That's right. So I think it's here to stay. As long as we all keep doing a good job. Daniel Tsentsiper (25:14.242) and keep varying our menus. Like I told you earlier that when I add new items, I try to add organic and other options which are not just meat. I have chicken and stuff like that. Like we added this organic chicken breast sandwich. And I imagine that we grill an organic free-range chicken breast, we slice it. and we make it into sandwiches. There's no nitrates, no preservatives, nothing. How much more healthier can you get? So we have that option too. know, people, a car full of people comes, everybody may not want a hot dog. So we have those options for people. Vegetarian dog to me was kind of... in the beginning, it was an oxy. I didn't start a vegetarian dog for many years. said, no, we don't have a vegetarian dog. Sorry. The one day I got a call from Landline and I see the caller ID Stanford University and we had a lot of business from Stanford. So she said, do you have a vegetarian dog? I said, no. and slam phone, slam. So I said, okay, it's time to get vegetarian. I got the vegetarian dogs as well. They don't sell that much. do ask about them and that few people buy them, but they don't sell that much. I've added other pastrami products and Philly cheese stick sandwich. So we have expanded our offering because I can see A lot of people depend on restaurants like ours for their daily food needs. Daniel Tsentsiper (27:09.238) Yeah, I hear you. think that competition is much tougher these days and you have the large McDonald's and you have the you know, like rising stars like the Dave's Hot Chicken and they're all so competitive. They're competing on cost and they have automation and they're just trying to pump out as much food as possible. But I think for me, whenever I come back to Ben Frank's, what I love the most is just the friendly atmosphere. Feels like I'm going into your home to eat your food and there's a more personalized touch to it, which I always appreciate. And that's why I love supporting small restaurants. People tell me, people like, I'm sorry, like I told you that people can tell I'm the owner when I'm on the property. A lot of people tell me, they'll say, do you know you have a great set of people working here? We love these people. And it's nice to hear. You know, some of our employees have been here 30 years, 35 years. That's unheard of, especially in the... And another fact, Daniel, you know, anybody who works at Ben Frank, they get free food. We don't even charge them 50 percent. They can eat anything they want. And they all start loving the food, obviously. so when employees leave us to pursue other careers and grow up and stuff. they all keep coming back for the food. It's very, very interesting. Sometimes you see this middle-aged guy, successful accountant or something and say, know what? I used to work here in the eighties. I was a young kid, I used to work here and stuff and I still come here for the food. Yeah, like you said, whole leg following. Yeah, it is. People love the food. When we first met, you talked about your your background as as an engineer and as a technologist. One thing that really stuck out to me when I first came to your restaurant was that you had all this cool tech all over the restaurant. how has your background in technology, being an entrepreneur, being an engineer kind of helped you approach this business? Because the restaurant industry I feel like is, is, sometimes lacking in, in adoption of new technology. So we'll love to hear more about how you've kind of taken your Daniel Tsentsiper (29:32.974) experience and elevated your current business. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you said lacking and I say I am kind of opposite of that. And I see your point that, know, and I'm opposite of that because, you know, I have this tremendous desire to add technology as much as possible to shave off costs, to increase efficiency and the general customer experience, right? For example, I don't know if you ever experienced our UPay system where we have these cameras installed and as soon as you drive through, your license plate gets red. And we have about three, 400 people registered on this program where we have the credit card associated with the license plate. and like I said, a lot of our customers are regular. So they just pull up, the license plate is red and you say, you want a chart plate? They say, yeah, boom. So that they like it. Everybody doesn't trust system like that. They don't wanna leave their credit card on file, et cetera. So we didn't get as much acceptance as we had hoped, but we have still enough people where we continue operating this payment system along with other conventional payment systems. And I don't know, Daniel, if you experience, I don't know how long you have come to Ben Frank. A couple of years ago, we experimented with speech recognition for order taking process. We partnered with this company and it was quite successful. was, but that was one area and I'm dedicated still to that. And because I think the whole technology is there to enable us to do that perfectly now. imagine saving on the salary of a cashier. You can't completely replace a cashier with the speech recognition AI type of system, but it can help the cashier. We still need the cashier to pay the cash, et cetera. But for instance, when I work at Ben Frank during the peak period, you have cars coming in, you have people walking up, you have the door dash tablet ringing off the hook, you start going crazy. So if I had Daniel Tsentsiper (31:58.57) and AI system handling the cars and the drive through, that would be such a tremendous help. I could hire somebody for that, but I don't need for them for more than three hours for the lunch rush. Now who's going to come to work for three hours? So it is perfect. So these are the things I want to do. And it would give me so much satisfaction that I was able to use my engineering background to better process in this new. food industry. So yes, that's my commitment. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm also so optimistic about technology and especially in the restaurant industry. There's so many ways from, like you said, doing loyalty to taking orders at the drive-through over the phone that we can take these new technologies and help run the restaurant more efficiently. And eventually maybe even pass the savings on to the customers, right? Because I'm sure as you mentioned, customers are becoming more and more, you know, price sensitive. And if you're able to reduce some of your overhead and pass those savings back, customers are going to appreciate the value that they get from eating their food. to you for- The recent price increase has actually been totally because of the labor cost increase, because California increased the minimum wage, right? So that was the main reason, the recent huge hike that happened. think I've never seen such a big hike and it was all because of the wages. And I don't begrudge them that. They are so low paid for such hard work they do. So I don't begrudge them that. But there is a limit to which people will tolerate. Like I think we almost reached it this time. That's why those articles that all people will be buying groceries and looking at home. shifting from eating at the restaurant to cooking at home. it's like, know, when I started with Ben Frank, classic hot dog was $5 something and now it's $8. Right. people sometimes balk at $8. And I have to remind them that that's what street vendors are charging for hot dogs now. Daniel Tsentsiper (34:18.7) That's right. And you've got employees, you've got a roof. employees, you've got utilities. $11,000 rent, know, we need to at least charge that much. But I feel for the customer, that's why I waited so long for this price increase. But there was no more waiting, was that or go out of business, we had to increase the price. But people will, there's a limit to how much they'll be able to tolerate. So the more we shave off our labor costs and all, I think it would be a tremendous help. It may be the only way to survive. That's That's true. Yeah. I have this vision of the future of food. I think that restaurants are still going to keep some of its... I think when you go to restaurants, it's so important to have this customer facing hospitality nature to it. But in the back of the kitchen, you should be running very lean operation, right? So you can focus on delivering the light to the customer. So I am a big proponent of technology and I'm glad that you kind of share the same vision for how the restaurants can improve. Daniel Tsentsiper (35:33.814) Arvin, let's talk about something fun. You have so many stories. We've talked for hours and hours and it feels like you're also a bit of a, it seems like you love movies and history and you seem like a Renaissance man of some sort. If you had to host anyone at Ben Frank's, who would it be and what would you serve them? Offhand, immediate person that comes to mind is Donald Trump. So he can take photos and bring traffic. He's such a purveyor of fast food. everybody knows, people make jokes about it and stuff. But he's also very controversial. maybe we have a stand in also. You know, I saw this movie on Roosevelt, on FDR, where Bill Murray played the part of FDR, and there was a scene. Obviously, these are historical moments. These are all things that happened. So the King and Queen of England were in the White House during the Second World War and the luncheon. FDR served them hot dogs. And so there is this scene. where the king and queen, they're looking at their plates and each plate had just like two hot dogs. So the queen, she asked the king, what's this dear? He says, dear hot dogs, it's an American thing. So maybe I should hope that King Charles will come visiting America and he wants to eat the best hot dog in the Bay area. And he comes to Ventre. with the Queen Camilla. I love that. Yeah. I feel like you can never be too rich, too popular, too influential to enjoy, enjoy a hot dog. So what, what hot dog would you serve him? Would you give him a, a kraut dog or a chili cheese dog? I would be safe. plain, plain regular classic. Uh, because other hot dogs, people who can, who like spicy food hot link. Daniel Tsentsiper (37:54.67) My go to hot dog is the hot link. like it with mayonnaise, onions and ketchup. So, but if something less spicy, the classic hot dog or the Chicago dog. French fries are very well received. My own daughters love our French fries. so, burgers are, mean, a lot of time people say, Hey, we didn't know you had burgers. I have to remind them that normally we have burgers. We have very high quality burgers. We use ground chuck. So they're more restaurant grade burgers, like Five Guys and all that. I mean, they charge 15 bucks for a burger. We charge $8 for the same burger, but very high quality burgers. I introduced the Swiss mushroom burger. I use organic mushrooms. The recipe called for canned mushroom soup. Jesus, that's going to make it all soggy. So I decided to use fresh mushrooms and I went with organic mushrooms. And I mean, it is such a delicious hamburger and anybody who tasted most people who like mushrooms come back for it regularly. I like that too. And you guys grill it, you guys cut up the mushrooms and grill it on the flat top and... Yeah, yeah. We grill the mushrooms and fresh mushrooms, freshly cut mushrooms. So good healthy food. Also, don't know how convenience stores and gas stations sell $2 hot dogs. Our hot dogs cost us more than that to make. they have this myth that hot dogs are made with discarded meat and stuff. These must be because that's the only way to sell a two dog hot dog. We use proper good ground beef in our hot dogs and there's no way we could sell a $2 hot dog. So there is a hot dog and there's a hot dog. so I'll respect that. I'll respect that. know they have their own customer segment and it doesn't seem like there's much overlap. Yeah. It's like people sometimes they are, why do you charge eight bucks for the same thing and $2? That's not the same thing, And you should. Daniel Tsentsiper (40:17.568) If you can't tell, then stick with the $2. I don't know. No shame in that. But it is not cheap these days. Meat is expensive. And it's going to keep getting expensive. So again, that comes back to how else can we shave our costs because food cost is going to keep going up. With the Ukraine war and lack of agriculture in certain countries. I shudder to think what the food costs are going to be in the coming years. So we must be prepared to become more efficient, become more technology-compliant, to take care of that. Arvind, thank you so much. Thank you for sharing us your story. My pleasure. It's clear that Ben Franks is more than just a restaurant. It's a piece of history. And I think you've done an incredible job keeping that legacy alive. So kudos to you and if you're watching this video, you should definitely head over to Redwood City on the corner of what is that El Camino and what's that? Whipple Avenue. Whipple. Yeah. an exit from 101 Whipple Avenue. It's an exit. And I remember you telling me that's one of the busiest intersections in the city. but you know the motorcycle police guys hide on our property to catch people trying to beat the railroad track signal. So they, got, tell me with them and they tell me these things. said, this is one of the most dangerous and busiest intersections. It's between this and Woodside Road. So, so you've got a killer location then. It is a great location. You don't do any advertising. It's all just word of mouth. Yeah. Arvin, it's a pleasure. Thank you so much. You're welcome. My pleasure. Thank you. Take care. Bye bye. Bye.